The Bottom-Up Revolution Is...Building a Culture of Bicycling

Emily Hutcheson is a bike advocate in San Antonio, Texas, and a mom of three. She joins Tiffany on this episode of The Bottom-Up Revolution to discuss her work improving bike infrastructure in her city. They discuss her path to advocacy, some of the initiatives she’s spearheaded, including a bike club and bike bus, and the response from the public and local officials.

• Click here for a computer-generated transcript.

  Tiffany Owens Reed 0:06

  Hi everybody. Welcome to another episode of the bottom up Revolution podcast. I'm your host. Tiffany Owens Reid. I'm a writer for strong towns, and it's my honor to host this show where I talk to ordinary people who are improving their communities in grassroots, bottom up, organic manner. Today I'm joined by Emily Hutchison. She's a fellow with Bat Conservation International. She's a mom of three, and I would say more importantly, most important, not more importantly than being a mom, but very excitedly, she is a cycling advocate in San Antonio, Texas. So I'm looking forward to this conversation. We're gonna be talking a lot about her work to, yeah, improve biking infrastructure in her city. Emily, welcome to the bottom up Revolution Podcast. I'm excited to talk with you.

  Emily Hutcheson 0:52

  Thanks, Tiffany. I'm excited to be here. So I would

  Tiffany Owens Reed 0:56

  like to kick this off with a story. You're a commuter biker, and I would love to know how that started for you. Can you tell us about your first commuter bike ride and kind of what inspired you to explore that way of getting around?

  Emily Hutcheson 1:10

  Yeah, so I started biking to work in I think it was 2011 when I lived in Washington, DC, and I lived there with my now husband and I was not a commuter cyclist, but the Metro sometimes was crowded, and my husband introduced me to the idea. I think we bought, I bought a bike before we bought a couch, because we just moved there. Yeah, so one we planned the route. He helped me plan the route, and he practiced with me on a Sunday before work when it wasn't, you know, stressful or crowded. And we lived on Capitol Hill, and I went down the hill and through the mall and by the Washington Monument, across by the Lincoln monument. And my job was in Rosslyn, so it was mostly off road. And DC, at the time, had some pretty good bike paths already. Yeah, it was really, it was a fun and it was a good way to be outside and exercise. And I think I was really worried about, I don't know, just sitting all day. So it was, it was a good way for me to feel active and be outside. And I also saved $5 a day on my metro Fair, which was $25 a week. And that added up because I was only making $13 an hour. So it was, yeah, that's when it started, and I, I fell in love with it.

  Tiffany Owens Reed 2:41

  So you're originally from Florida, but you've moved around quite a bit. Can you tell us about your adventures? And what I really am curious about is what has been the most impactful thing for you from your moves, as it pertains to how you see, how you've learned to see, like the built environment, or just what you think about when you think about cities. Yeah.

  Emily Hutcheson 3:00

  So I grew up in Orlando, Florida, which is very suburban, and then I went to college in New Haven, and I loved being able to walk everywhere and take the train to New York City and be able to access the real possibilities of rail and not have to have a car. And from there, I wanted to live somewhere that you didn't need to have a car. So DC was one of those places where you don't have to have a car to get around. I think when I'm driving, I just, this is an aside, but I feel it's stressful to drive and to worry about parking and getting hit or getting hit when your car's parked. Yeah, so DC was a really great place to live for for the urban environment and accessibility, because they also have great bike trails, like the Sienna canal icon. So that as a starting point for like, noticing where I wanted to live. I lived in Tallahassee, which, if you live in certain areas, it's walkable and bikeable. We lived in Madison, Wisconsin, which is very highly regarded as a bike commuting town. I was in grad school, so I biked everywhere. My husband also did a master's in urban planning, so that introduced some of the theoretical concepts, but we've continued to sort of seek out places where we can walk and bike. And then from Madison, we moved to Austin, which also has great trails and connectivity, but it's a little more suburban in terms of commuting. And then we ended up in San Antonio because as an older city, it has this great sort of grid in the neighborhood that we live in that is really good bones for for walking and biking. So

  Tiffany Owens Reed 4:50

  when you went from Orlando to New Haven, was that sort of your first like exposure to something other than sprawl and car oriented like suburbia. It? Um,

  Emily Hutcheson 5:00

  yeah. I mean, I as a resident rather than a tourist, right?

  Tiffany Owens Reed 5:06

  Sure. Okay, yeah, that's Yeah. Was that shocking for you? What was that like? I'm asking this because I feel like your journeys and adventures kind of parallels a little bit of mine. Like I actually did 11th grade in Orlando and then moved to New York City for college, I remember, and now I'm in Texas.

  Emily Hutcheson 5:28

  Yeah, I don't remember being shocked. I think my parents were surprised that I chose such an urban place,

  Tiffany Owens Reed 5:34

  and cold, probably, and cold, yeah,

  Emily Hutcheson 5:38

  I think they thought I would end up somewhere with more green spaces. But, yeah, I just, I felt the freedom of an urban space where you can walk and get around and everything you need is close by. And college campuses are different too, but, but being, being somewhere where you can take a train somewhere. I was not a cyclist in college. I should say that I brought a bike to college, and it was scary to bike in New Haven. I was a science major. There's some place called Prospect Hill, and all the science classes are up this hill with a lot of cars, and maybe it's different now. But actually left my bike at a bike shop after the first semester, and never picked it up. So I was not like an all star commuter in college, but I think just living somewhere that opens your my eye, it opened my eyes to being able to walk and not have to have a car. Yeah,

  Tiffany Owens Reed 6:36

  so it sounds like that really shaped your priorities for like, to a large degree, I'm sure it's not the only consideration, in terms of, like, the kinds of neighborhoods you chose after that. So coming to Texas, what, what was that adjustment like from a biking perspective? Because obviously, I'm in Texas, I've I'm in Waco, I've been to Austin multiple times. I know they've put, they've invested on in biking infrastructure, but I've actually never really biked Austin, which is very interesting, because I feel like the stat, the car saturation of Austin, still is very nerve wracking to me, like just the sheer volume of car traffic, but I would like to, I would like to bike their Network One day you're in San Antonio, so it sounds like maybe a little bit of a different dynamic there. But I feel like some people would say, like moving to Texas could be kind of a kill joy for biking, but it was not for you. You kept biking. What was that? What was that adjustment like? Or should I say, what was that adventure like? Yeah, well, I

  Emily Hutcheson 7:37

  think we have always picked places intentionally with biking in mind. So when we lived in Austin, we lived in South Austin, we were sort of near the intersection of Brody and William cannon. That is a big, big four lane road. William cannon is, I think it's four lanes. It's a busy road. You wouldn't want to bike on it. But just, you know, a block off Austin has really great trail networks that are connected. So we could, I started mountain biking in Austin, and you could ride from where we rented to connect to a bunch of Greenway trails. And we could, we could ride our bikes. You know, Costcos are always sort of in a suburban area. We could bike to Costco because of the off road trails. There's a Costco and a whole food so that was like our grocery run by bike. Yeah, Austin has some really good off road trails. Definitely the suburban design and land use don't allow it to be a great biking city, but I know they've made tons of progress with bike lanes and San Antonio. So I live in Beacon Hill, which is sort of midtown or near North. And if you have been to San Antonio, you've probably been to the river walk and the pearl. So if you bike to the pearl, the when houses are for sale in my neighborhood, they advertise that you could walk to the pearl. It's not very pleasant, but I think you could walk there, I don't know, in less than an hour. And people, people run there, but yeah, the neighborhood we're in is, it was, it's on a grid network. So the when I said, like the bone, San Antonio has good bones. We're on these. It's Beacon Hill. Alta Vista and monta VISTA are all sort of really mapped out. They were mapped out when the electric trolley car was put in place. So they're they're easy to get around, and there's coffee shops that we can walk to in Beacon Hill. So it's kind of this nice little urban neighborhood, like this little pocket, yeah, yeah, yeah, and you have to choose to live here, and that's what we choose. But there's schools around. There's three schools. So we're less than a mile from a school where my son goes. Next year, my daughter will also go there. But. We like the proximity. Proximity is really important for me.

  Tiffany Owens Reed 10:02

  Yeah, yeah. It's interesting hearing you talk about the trails in Austin, and it's it's exposing to me how my like, primary assumption when I think about biking around a city is more or less to be on the streets. But I think what you're pointing out is a good reminder that that's not the only way to add bike infrastructure to the city. You can also add it in these different, more creative ways, like kind of tucked in the city, still connecting people to meaningful and relevant destinations, but maybe not embedded right next to the traffic. You know, yeah, my introduction to biking was in Brooklyn, so I was used to like weaving and phenol show off. E Yeah, and a little bit aggressive, and I thought it was kind of an adventure. So that's always been my and I always biked for practical things, and except for when I would take really long rides to the beach or I would go race all the professional cyclists and prospect part, why do I do these things to myself, just for fun? So those were, like, my two leisure rides. But for the most part, okay, I had three leisure rides. Nevermind. Um, for the most part, though, when I bike in Texas, I like to always do it for like, a reason, like, I'm gonna go work from this coffee shop for a little bit. So I pack everything up and I bike to the coffee shop, or I'm gonna go to, you know, biking just for fun. Like, I'm gonna go go around the river a couple, a couple times at the park. It's not my first choice. It's just kind of funny. It's just funny. So I have these sort of like prejudices about how I bike and where I bike, but there are lots of ways to go about it, and this idea of kind of embedding it, you know, and within the city, maybe in green space, but still connecting people. Because I feel like sometimes people have really beautiful bike trails, but they don't go anywhere. They don't go anywhere. You know what? I mean? Yes,

  Emily Hutcheson 11:45

  yes, I know. I really don't like to have to get in the car to bike.

  Tiffany Owens Reed 11:50

  Yes, this is what I call, like park up urbanism part, you know, like drive up urbanism when you have to drive to the urbanism,

  Emily Hutcheson 11:59

  yeah, San Antonio has these really, is a really great Greenway system of paved trails at a lot of the big greenways and they, I don't know if it's a circle yet, but you could essentially go all the way around, and there's tons of miles, but you have to drive there for the most part, unless you live in a neighborhood that connects up. But they're not central, they're more on the outer ring.

  Tiffany Owens Reed 12:22

  Since you've been in Texas, this is kind of where the the advocacy part of your story started. So you've been biking these multiple years. I think you mentioned to me, when we talked before this, that you, you guys got a cargo bike at one point, so you're also taking your kids around by bike. And then you started a bike club in your neighborhood. Can you tell us about that?

  Emily Hutcheson 12:42

  Yeah, so, so I have three kids, and my oldest is seven, and he he started biking to school last year. This is like the point for me, like when he was biking to school. And my husband is a confident commuter, and I expected him to tell me how great it was for them to bike to school. And he did, this is perfect.

  Tiffany Owens Reed 13:05

  It's a great place. I will edit your story for you now.

  Emily Hutcheson 13:11

  Yeah, continue. Yeah. So they started biking to school last year, and you know, we're seven tenths of a mile away. So it's not long. It's short. It's fast, as fast to bike there as it is to drive. And my husband came back and said how this wasn't the first day, but how it was so bad because of the cars or the lack of infrastructure. For instance, there's this one road summit that where the train tracks cross it, the sidewalk disappears, and pedals accumulate when it rains and and all the car it just you get squeezed because everything there's no infrastructure protecting bikes or pedestrians. So that's a pinch point that's uncomfortable, and the sidewalks are bad if then they did go on the sidewalk sometimes. So at that point, when I heard him say, like, the infrastructure is so bad for him to complain about it, because he and I also, like you said, like biking, taking the lane, biking with cars, is sort of what you do when you're a commuter and, like, that's what you have to do. But when you're biking with your kid, or expecting your kid to be on the same road as cars, it's it feels different. Yeah, so at that point, that's when I started asking my local officials for bike lanes and bike infrastructure. They were very receptive. And you know, San Antonio is making positive changes to its bike network, but that was back in May and and we still we don't have bike lanes yet. There's a lot of good progress towards them, but we don't have bike lanes yet. So anyway, I applied for this grant through the city office of sustainable. Ability, and part of writing the grant was saying what I would do. So I said I would do three things. One was start a bike club in my neighborhood. Two was start a bike bus to school with other kids, and three was to host a bike walk and roll event to the school. I started the bike club to make sure, you know, it was a really useful exercise to write this grant, even though I didn't end up getting it to write down what I what I was going to do. So we started the bike club. We had a friend, we have a friend, a neighbor, and they had lived in Bogota in Colombia, where they Oh, yeah, there's a huge biking culture there. Yes, yes. So they were also commuter cyclists, and come to have their kids were comfortable biking, so with her, I checked a time, and was like, is Tuesday gonna work? Should we do it at six or 615? Or so we I set a time with my neighbor, because then I knew at least one other family would come, and it wasn't just us, and we met in front of our house, and we would stand in the road, and the kids would just ride circles on the on the sidewalk, and then across the road and on the other sidewalk, and yeah, for 45 minutes or an hour, they just ride their bikes. And for the first few months, it was just us and one other family, but we started advertising and telling other people, if we saw them on their bikes with kids to come, it's been really fun because it's it's had a lot of neighbors come. We've got kids on starter bikes so like, more toddler age, and we've since moved to a church parking lot in the neighborhood so there's more space. And since the time change, it started dark when we meet on Tuesday nights, but, um, yeah, it's been a really positive thing, and my kids look forward to it and seeing other neighborhood kids, and we've invited kids outside of the neighborhood, and the idea is they're practicing riding together, and their their bikes are in working order. They're sort of learning to ride in a group. In the summer, we did some rides to instead of just riding in circles, like we rode to an ice cream shop at the far end of the neighborhood, there's a playground in the neighborhood. We rode to the neighborhood playground. Yeah. So it's been the bike club. The neighborhood Bike Club has been a really fun and successful group activity we've

  Tiffany Owens Reed 17:25

  done, yeah, I think similar to your story with how your husband kind of helped you, you know, map out the route and practice it with you. You know, I think for a lot of people, like having that partnership, or having that companion help with the introduction to biking is so can be so pivotal to your association for biking, like what you associate with commuter biking, or just biking in general, and getting over those initial anxieties or fears. So I can imagine that even is more compounded for children. You know, when their introduction to biking is this, like, really positive social experience. Yeah, they're friends.

  Emily Hutcheson 18:01

  Yeah, absolutely. I think biking is definitely one of those things that's way more fun. I mean, it's fun to go by yourself, but it's more fun with more people, which

  Tiffany Owens Reed 18:09

  is the complete opposite of driving. Driving is competitive. It's like, it's worse. The more people that show up, the worse. Yes, yes. Whereas the more people that show up biking, the better it is. So definitely something to think about there. So you mentioned that a bike bus was part of your application for that grant, and I know you didn't get the grant, but to my understanding is you're still working on the bike bus. What has that journey been like for you?

  Emily Hutcheson 18:33

  Yeah, so we do. We have a bike bus, and we go once a month with another family who also lives in the neighborhood and goes to the same school as my kids. And our kids are pretty young, so her oldest is in second grade, and my oldest is in first so we have a second grade or a first grader, a kindergartner, and a pre k4 all riding their bikes, and then I say five kids, because my my babies also, but he's riding a seat so I can similar to the bike bus, like it's I text with Katie, my neighbor, and we say, let's, let's do it this Friday. We said Fridays because it's hard to get out the door in the morning. And Fridays, you know, you're a little less stressed about being there on time, but biking actually on bike bus days, my kids get their clothes on. They're excited. They get up out of bed right away, which is not always the case on regular days. So we usually meet at her house. We practice the route. We actually practice two different routes, and one is better than the other. So we ride that route. So we meet up at their house at 730 and then we bike together. And usually it's three parents. So two families, three parents, biking together. And yeah, we we stopped together, and my. Husband is usually in the front and Katie or is in the back. So there's sort of someone in the front, someone in the back. There's some busy intersections that we cross, and it's safer to ride at a group, right? But there's still, we don't quite have that many people that we can take the whole road like there's been a couple times when cars feel like we're in their way, but we've done it, so I'm hopefully it'll become more sustainable to do it more frequently, like some bike busses go once a week, which would be nice.

  Tiffany Owens Reed 20:34

  I bet the kids love it. They do.

  Emily Hutcheson 20:36

  They really do. Yeah, it's it's fun. It's fun for them to bike together and bike to school see their friends. Yeah,

  Tiffany Owens Reed 20:45

  are there any fun things along the route they like to see? Or do they get excited about? Yeah,

  Emily Hutcheson 20:52

  actually, there. So our neighborhood doesn't have any sort of HOA rules, so one family has goats. See the goats in the morning, and we also ride by a neighborhood that has or a restaurant in the neighborhood that has turkeys, so they often stop and gobble at the turkeys. And the turkeys actually used to gobble back at us when we would bike, but they haven't been gobbling as much

  Tiffany Owens Reed 21:20

  recently. This is something that I've thought about, and definitely have continued to think about and continue to observe since I became a mom a year and a half inch ago. Just how interesting it is to watch children observe the city, or how to how just watching them, like, take their neighborhood in, like, something that simple as a walk. I mean, even if it's just like around the block, like you realize, like, wow, they're learning so much about the world just through this really simple walk. I don't know if you've seen that comparative sketch that that these researchers had children do, where they had children who drove to school and children who biked or walked to school can't remember, and they have them draw their route, and, like, what they remember and how the one that's driving is very, like, not specific. I think it's in, like, I don't know if they did this on purpose, but I think it's like, really dark colors. And they just, it's just very, like, there's not a lot of detail, you know, it's very quick, you know, and like, surface. And then they do, they compare that to the sketch of the children who like bike or walk to school, and how there's, like, all these so much more detail. And I, my memory has it that the one where they're biking and stuff is in color and the other one is not. But that could just be my anti car bias, colorful stories. Who knows? Yeah, um, but it just makes me think about the relationship between, you know, and I feel like this is still relevant for adults, how we get around and what we notice about our communities, you know, like, even your husband doing that bike ride, it's like, so short, but he noticed so many problems and such a short, you know, distance, yeah, right, yeah.

  Emily Hutcheson 22:51

  Well, I know I I haven't collected testimonials from my kids, like, when we get there, and I know other bike busses have, and they have great responses from kids saying about how great they feel before school. But I know I feel great the days that I bike, or bike with them, or bike to get places. I mean, it's just, it's so it's so noticeable, like it's nice to be outside, I feel more optimistic. I'm just happier.

  Tiffany Owens Reed 23:18

  But I bet you notice more of your neighborhood too, I bet you, yeah.

  Emily Hutcheson 23:23

  Well, we definitely know our neighbors better, like that. That CS biking. I know there's this, there's a resident on Summit, so we haven't been going on summit because of the infrastructure issues, but he's so friendly. He always waves like we definitely, I feel more connected to the people around us and and so we also have a cargo bike. And when my kids are in the cargo bike and out of their own bikes, I feel like it's a parade. I mean, everyone is waving, you're waving. Yeah, it's, it's way more

  Tiffany Owens Reed 23:52

  fun. Yeah, thinking of bikes as a form of social transit, almost, yeah, it's very social experience. Yes. So you mentioned earlier that you started advocating for for better bike infrastructure and bike lanes and stuff in your neighborhood, and haven't quite seen them yet, but it sounds like you're still optimistic. What has that side been like for you with building relationships and starting conversations with your local leaders?

  Emily Hutcheson 24:21

  Yeah, it's been a really positive experience overall. I mean, everyone that I've talked to is excited about it and really wants to help, especially I think talking about my kid and kids and biking to school, and kids walking to school, because it's such a it's a solution to so many problems. I think all the people that I have talked to and asked for help are totally on board, and so the Councilwoman and district one where I live has been very supportive. I I've reached out to the city transportation department and the City Planning Department. And they've all been very supportive. San Antonio has a MPO because it's a big city, and their multi modal transportation planner has been very supportive. And I've just been so San Antonio has this bike network update that is about to be voted on by the city council next week, and it's very positive, but they were at a meeting last year in May, is when I first started to go to meetings in city, city staff, and just asked my question was like, Is there safe routes to schools for kids? Because some places have that. And then I just kept finding people who were sort of tangentially related to that, or or directly related to that, and introduced myself and what I was hoping for. And they would say like, oh, you should talk to this person. So I talked to that person. And then San Antonio is also getting Bus Rapid Transit on San Pedro the green line, and I would go to those meetings, because they're going to do complete streets with as they do add the green line, but only around that one street. So like the bike network will you know, connectivity is really important for biking and anything multi modal. But so I've just kept going to these different meetings and introducing myself, and I've met other cycling advocates. I'm just keep trying to show up and and people, I mean, some, many of the city planners, have said, like, I'm really glad you're asking for this. This is what we want to but they need, they need residents and constituents ask for it.

  Tiffany Owens Reed 26:43

  So it sounds like you're very optimistic and very patient. Have you ever just like, daydreamed about just like putting down a bike lane yourself, and just, I always admire people when they're like, yeah.

  Emily Hutcheson 27:00

  So I actually, I just the League of American Bicyclists has a grant that was due last week or the beginning of this week, and I applied for a pop up bike lane. Awesome. So we'll see. I don't know, haven't tried anything pop up yet, but I think that's a way that people show that it could work and get other people to buy in.

  Tiffany Owens Reed 27:24

  Yeah, I feel like this is always a sticky point for people who want, you know, especially around transportation, is kind of finding that balance between, you know, respecting the processes and all the different people and all the different, like, complex systems that are at play when it comes to making these types of changes, but then also realizing, like, Wait, it could be like, another three years before we get a bike lane, you know, even though everybody supports it, but it could be like, because of this, because of that, and how do you navigate that tension? I'm just curious, especially when you think about, like, this is for my kids. It's not just for me.

  Emily Hutcheson 27:57

  Yeah, it's really hard. It's hard because So one thing that's hard is transportation alternatives funding, which is the federal funding for bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure. They also fund planning, so non infrastructure, that application for Texas is due soon, and that's like for the next three or four years allocation. It's too late to sort of submit something for that. So that's really disappointing, because that's federal funding. It's one of the main sources that a lot of nonprofits and cities and school districts use for funding Safe Routes to Schools and infrastructure changes. But so something that buoys me is the bike club, and I think that the momentum of meeting once a week feels really positive and really joyful, and people are into it, and it's so that keeps me more able to to go with the flow as we move at a sort of slower pace. Keeps You

  Tiffany Owens Reed 29:05

  from reading lows for all the white.

  Emily Hutcheson 29:09

  Yeah, yeah. So I don't know if I told you before, but last we canceled this week because it was really cold in San Antonio. It snowed the week before a neighbor who used to work in the bike industry, came out, and he brought a bunch of supplies and offered his help fixing up all the kids bikes. So that was really nice, and it's great to feel like the whole community is invested in getting kids on bikes and safely and supporting them.

  Tiffany Owens Reed 29:37

  I think the pop up route is a good route to take, because I do think sometimes the official process, you know, it's so slow and bogged down. And I think giving people a chance to see, like, what a solution could look like quickly can be really powerful to like, build momentum, build support, and like, keep keep drawing attention to like, real problems that need to be solved.

  Emily Hutcheson 29:58

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it's not expensive, right? It doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be a perfect fix. It's not expensive to put up quick, quick build sort of pop up bike lanes.

  Tiffany Owens Reed 30:09

  What's been the most surprising, or like, interesting thing you've learned about what it means to start being involved in your community in this way?

  Emily Hutcheson 30:20

  Honestly, I've been surprised at how positive the response to me asking for things is, and has been like, I can ask for things that I want. It's bike lanes and and I think it's just because it's centered on kids and communities that it's gone so well. But I feel like I've had I've just been really happy with how positively all the people that I've spoken with have responded, Emily,

  Tiffany Owens Reed 30:49

  I'm really glad we've been able to capture your story for this show. To wrap things up, I ask this of every guest who comes on, tell us a little bit about your I mean, you've told us a lot about your neighborhood in your town already, so we can just jump to the second part. What are some local spots that you like to recommend people check out if they come through your town for a couple hours?

  Emily Hutcheson 31:10

  Definitely Beacon Hills, blanco road. We've got bright coffee and copper rose wine bar that also has snacks and non alcoholic goods. The pizza at Soho Cafe is really good. And I think there is going to be, there's going to be some new restaurants coming soon. So Blanco road, the Beacon Hill area, is definitely one to not miss.

  Tiffany Owens Reed 31:37

  Awesome. All right. Well, thank you so much. And if you've been listening to this episode, Thanks for Thanks for joining us for this conversation. If there is someone in your community who you think would make a great fit for the show, please let us know using the suggested guest form in our show notes. I'll be back next week with another conversation. In the meantime, keep doing what you can to build a strong town.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

• Local Recommendations:

• Bright Coffee.

• Copper Rose Winebar.

• SoHill Café.

• Tiffany Owens Reed (Instagram).

• Do you know someone who would make for a great The Bottom-Up Revolution guest? Let us know here!

• Subscribe to The Bottom-Up Revolution on iTunes, Google Podcasts, Podbean or via RSS.

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