Elizabeth Turman-Bryant: The Bottom-Up Path to Local Leadership
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant is a councilmember in Burlington, Washington. She's passionate about community building, revitalizing historical areas, and making Burlington more bicycle and pedestrian friendly.
Turman-Bryant joins Tiffany to discuss her journey from nonprofit work to local government. She explains some of the projects she’s working on and the importance of striking a balance between the responsiveness of bottom-up activism and the influence of local government involvement.
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Tiffany Owens Reed 0:06
Hi everybody. Welcome to another episode of the bottom up Revolution podcast. I'm your host, Tiffany Owens, read I'm a writer for strong towns, and on this show, I get to talk to ordinary people who are improving their communities and bottom up grassroots fashion. I think sometimes that strong towns are just if you're involved in the urbanism world, or interested in the conversations about the American city and how to improve the American city, and rethinking the suburban experiment, bringing necessary reforms, whether that's to housing or finance or street design. I sometimes think there can be this suspicion, or at least mixed feelings about the value of serving in local government, and perhaps rightly so. We have often seen how government can just be a source of bureaucracy, complicated rules, slow timelines and decision making, and often even interests that conflict with what we know would actually make our towns stronger. But today's guest shows that serving in local government can also be an organic next step for some of us who are working to improve our communities, and it can be a way to facilitate conversation and even meaningful change. Elizabeth Terman Bryant is currently serving her first term as Burlington city council member for ward three, she's passionate about community building, making Burlington more bicycle and pedestrian friendly, revitalizing historic Fair Haven Avenue, and creating third spaces where neighbors can interact. In today's conversation, we're gonna talk about her story, how she ended up serving in local government, and some of the things she's observed about her city in terms of where it's struggling and what she sees as opportunities to make it stronger. Elizabeth, welcome to the bottom up Revolution podcast.
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 1:49
Hi, Tiffany. It's great to be here.
Tiffany Owens Reed 1:52
So let's start off talking about your city. Can you tell us a little bit about a little bit about Burlington and how you came to call it home?
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 2:00
Yes. So I am from Burlington, Washington. It's a small town. It's about 11,000 people, and it's also very small in geography, it's about four square miles across. It's an hour north of Seattle and an hour south of the border, so we're like right on the i Five corridor in Northwest Washington. And this is a area of the country that's growing immensely. It's also a area of the country that's really beautiful, and we are in agricultural Valley, and so it's some of the best farmland in the nation. And that's kind of a unique kind of thing about our community, is that we have big city problems, but we're also very rural. So it's it's an interesting place to live.
Tiffany Owens Reed 2:55
Yeah, that is interesting. So as I know from your story, you you're from there, but you left and then came back. Can you tell us a little bit about that journey?
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 3:02
Yes, I moved here in 2004 I had been doing graduate work up in BC, and then I came down to work with a non profit ministry in in Burlington. And so I was, yeah, working on kind of indirect service with folks on the margins and and lived in Burlington during that time. I We left in 2012 for my husband to go do graduate work. And during the time that we were away, I was always like, I want to move back to Skagit Valley, like the the larger valley where Burlington is located, just because it's a really unique and beautiful community. And there's, there's, it's, it's really diverse. It has, like, the agricultural farm worker community, you know, and it has kind of the progressive, you know, we have an amazing Co Op, so it's got, like, the island and progressive feel. But then we also have these, like, you know, agricultural families who've been here for years. So it's just a really vibrant mix of cultures and places. And so I was really drawn to moving back. And so during the pandemic there were, there was a pause in the housing market, and we were able to buy in and come back, which was a great gift to us.
Tiffany Owens Reed 4:18
I'm just curious, how has you since you're from there, and you've kind of lived in these different at these different points in your life. How have you noticed it changing over, over that time?
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 4:30
Well, I mean, I did. I actually grew up internationally, so I'm not from here. Oh, I see okay, but I moved here 20 years ago, so I have seen it change significantly. Mostly it's, it's, we're getting a lot of pressure. Western Washington in general, there's a lot of people moving because of, you know, the tech industry, or just it's a desirable place to live. And so because of that, the cities in Skagit Valley. Are feeling a lot of pressure to grow, but they can only do it in a certain footprint because we're trying to preserve the farmlands as well. And so Burlington has changed from being kind of like a smaller town to probably the last five to seven years, there's apartment complexes going up, and there's just a lot more density coming in the city, which is unsettling sometimes to the residents here. And, you know, we've it was also built around the big box store, and that's been a lot of how the town has, has sustained itself financially. And then as big, you know, big box stores are going out of vogue as online shopping has come and so that's change as well. We have all these empty retail stores that the town is trying to figure out. You know, how do we what do we do with these spaces?
Tiffany Owens Reed 5:52
Yeah, and I think you told me in the lot in our chat before this, that it's kind of a highway city, and that a lot of the development kind of oriented to the highway rather than to the city's core. So I suspect that brings a lot of challenges as well.
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 6:07
Exactly, yeah, that there's, there's a lot of people moving in who commute. You know, are there, they're just here, and as as they're going either up to Bellingham, which is is the city right above us or down to Seattle, and so we are providing housing, but sometimes I'm not 100% sure it's meeting the needs of our local residents, and specifically families like our school district is suffering as there's less and less children enrolling. And so that's one of my concerns, is just, is the apartment are the apartment buildings serving? You know, we have families who've been here for generations, like it's the kind of place where people really feel from here, and yet, with vacation and rising cost, it's like, Can those families actually afford to stay in our valley?
Tiffany Owens Reed 6:57
So can you share with us, sort of the story of your, I guess, like civic engagement, or sort of what this has looked like for you, just in terms of caring for your local community, or, like, building community. What does that look like for you over and then? And then we'll talk a little bit about how that ultimately led to you running for public office, but I'd love just to hear a little bit more of the story up until then.
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 7:21
Okay, so like I said, I come from, like a nonprofit background. I studied theology and then came and worked with a like a nonprofit, and a lot of my skill set is community building and community organizing, and so I did that in my nonprofit work. And then when we moved back to Scott to Burlington, I was right in the middle of the pandemic, and I was homeschooling my my two kids and so with them. And you know, so my husband was working, and I was with in the homeschooling, holding up that part of Yeah, the relational, you know, need Yeah,
Tiffany Owens Reed 8:11
you were working too. It's just I was doing, like,
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 8:15
yeah, of our home life. And so I had a lot of energy. And one of the things I was sensing was post pandemic, there was just people were feeling really, really disconnected. And so I thought, wow, like, that's a skill set I can bring as I can try to connect and connect people in our neighborhood. And so one day, there was a big fire across the street from us, and so all the neighbors came out of their houses. And so I was able to connect with some other families that had children. And so then my kids used to go over to their kids house, and they would play in the yard. You know, this is during the pandemic. And so one of the persons was a real community builder. And so we talked about doing a block party. And so we started doing block parties, and then we would do a chili cook off. And so I found some, like other neighbors who were very community minded. We put together an email list, and that's gradually grown to about 100 folks in our neighborhood. And we have a regular rhythm of neighborhood events that we do. And so just realizing, like, people really want to be connected, but they don't know how, and so I feel like that's been my role as, like a catalyst and just a connector in our neighborhood. So then fast forward, there was another neighbor I know, who's an old, older lady who's from the valley, and she is just like, really community minded as well. And one day she she was pointing at a wall really close to where I live. And she said, look at that graffiti wall. You know? She was like, it's so ugly. She was like, I would love to see a mural there. And I was like, oh, that sounds awesome. And so then I thought, hmm, I have an artist friend who also lives in town. So, you know, I mentioned to her we were having tea for her birthday. And I said, What? You ever be interested in doing a mural? She was like, I would love to. So we're like, Okay, well, what's your rate? So we figured out how much we wanted to fundraise, and so then we just decided to do a Go Fund Me and and so we raised $3,000 and you know, kind of we're raising publicity among our neighbors. And then we decided to approach the city and ask, like, Would you be willing to pay the rest of it? And so we approached our city council, and we went to meeting after meeting after meeting. And this, of course, was not on their budget at all, and our city is very fiscally conservative, and so they didn't quite know what to do with it. We didn't have an Arts Commission at that point, they were just kind of like, Huh? But
Tiffany Owens Reed 10:43
we kept, how do you make a decision without a commission? I mean, how does, how does anybody function without was like, committee. Wait what
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 10:53
information? It's not in the budget of the CIP so the week. But we kept on showing up. And then, you know, they finally, begrudgingly said that they would fund it. And so that was my first exposure to the actual city council. And I had joined, when I first came I had joined the Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee, just because I'm really passionate about third spaces, and we have a really like central park that has not been very well maintained. And I was like, That is such a beautiful park and needs, it needs some love. And so I joined that. So I was gradually getting, you know, familiar with just the way cities do things, and the very slow way and methodical way things things happen. So those were, like, my, my two involvements with the city, kind of prior to actually joining in. So they were more from like a grassroots, active citizen perspective.
Tiffany Owens Reed 11:48
We'll continue that story in a minute, but I want to ask you about something that has kind of been on my mind since I talked to you the first time, but in that season of life where you were homeschooling your kids, your mom, but then you're starting to also notice these needs in the community. I was just curious if you could share just anything you learned, or any reflections on how moms in particular can be like community assets and like kind of in the way that you are, or just like neighborhood assets, because I I like as a mom now, and I mostly at home with my kiddo and working from home and stuff, but it's just been something that I've been thinking about kind of how motherhood can also be a gift when it comes to thinking about the opportunity to care for your neighborhood and for your communities. I just was curious if you could share on that someone who has more experience. Absolutely,
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 12:34
yeah. I mean, I would say that's my primary calling, is, is being a mom in the season. And I think moms have such a great gift because first of all, like they're out in the community, you're in the library, you are, you know, on the sports team, like you're experiencing the services that a city and community offers. Then you're also talking to other, you know, other people in very informal settings. And one thing I think I realized that has been so exciting to me as, like an active, engaged citizen, like you can make such a difference because, like our city, for instance, it's very small, and we have just a few staff in each department, and they're doing a tremendous amount of things each staff. And so I was each person. I've realized each city employee is working probably, like 80 to 90% of their capacity, like just to kind of get through all the things that they need to do. And so one of the roles I've been able to do as, just like an engaged citizen who has the gift of time because, you know, I'm with my my kids, but I can still be doing this work, like do phone calls and email work and all that while I'm with my kids, is like, I kind of being a connector. Like the image I had was like being a bee. Like, you can go from silo to silo to silo and kind of see the bigger picture. And you can tell the city employee, like, hey, like, I know this is something you want, but they don't have time in their schedule to kind of like, see the forest, because they're just, like, looking at the trees. And as an engaged citizen, who, you know, especially if you're bringing, like, a bit of vision and dreaming into the mix, like, you can kind of do that work and help them start dreaming, and then you can be a catalyst for that change in your community, and so that's what I've experienced, and it's been such a privilege to do that. But I mean, I think, yeah, being in that role, you know, you've got some grassroots credibility, because you're really out there talking to folks, and you can say, you know, this and this and this, you can speak from that perspective, but then also you have the time to go into other communities, or, you know, for instance, like with with, like, bicycle stuff. That's one of the thing projects I'm involved with, I've been able to kind of intersect with all these other cities about their bicycle plans, and then bring back that, back to our our planners, and say, do. Woolley is doing this, and then so and so is doing this, and they are like, Oh, we didn't know that. That's awesome. Thank you. So I think that's one of the gifts that stay up, stay at home, moms or stay at home parents can bring.
Tiffany Owens Reed 15:12
Yeah, I agree with you on all of that, and it's been a good I'm not saying I've cracked the code yet. I'm not, I don't know that I'm necessarily like a neighborhood, like a city B quite yet, because it definitely is challenging. We're also a one car family, so even getting around, getting to meetings, like I'll hear about the meetings and stuff happening, but a lot of them I can't get to, and a lot of them happen during the evening, dinner, bath time. Push right. So sometimes they can just feel a little disorienting, as like a woman who's a wife and mom who, like, wants to help in the city, but sometimes I'm not exactly sure where all the opportunities are for this life stage. Um, but even talking to my other moms, like, you're right, we we see each other, we see things around the city. We do have funny margins, like pockets of time where we can, like you said, like sending that email or making that call. And I've heard a lot of my I mean, they have ideas like, they have vision for like, how things could be better. We also observe things that most people won't see because we're home. Like I told my husband the other day, we're starting to get speeding traffic right down our street, and he never knows, because he's at work all day, right? But I'm like, No, I think I've heard like, I've heard high, high, high speed traffic going right past our house like half a dozen times in the past two weeks now, right? So it's just a fun it's kind of an ongoing conversation in my head with myself, of like, how does, how to, how does this goal of being civically engaged in this role as mom? How do they blend? You know, where are the challenges? But there are also lots of opportunities. Um, so let's continue the story of you serving on your city council. This was, I don't get the impression this was something that you had, like, on your goals of life, things to do when you moved back to Burlington. So can you tell us the story about how that evolved? Yeah.
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 17:01
I mean, I very much identify as a grassroots kind of person, advocating on the outside of government, and so it was a very strange thing. It's a very strange thing for me now to be on the inside, having said that there was like the representative from our neighborhood moved, and so there was an opportunity to, kind of like, opt in, or like, be chosen for that position. And I did put my, my my name in the hat the first time. And there was like, seven of us in the neighborhood who did, and they ended up not choosing me, but another woman who was amazing. And I told them I was like, I'm going to be advocating for the neighborhood, no matter what, you know. But they ended up choosing this woman because she, you know, just amazing and bilingual. And so she was in the position for about a year, and then life circumstances changed for her, and she had to move out of the neighborhood. And so she approached me, I believe it was two years ago, around this time, she asked me to go for a walk, and so I went with her walker. She's like, you know, this is happening, and I have to move. And she's like, I would like you to consider taking my place and running for city council this November. And I was like, oh, you know, again, like it was a real I kind of, I mean, I considered it earlier, but I it had been almost like a relief not to have to be in that role. And especially the idea of running and having my name up on yard signs was really intimidating. So it took me a long time, but I eventually, like our council at that point, was all with seven white or, I guess she was the woman, and there was six other white men. And I just thought, you know what? I don't want it to be. I think the diversity of perspective and voice is really important. So I will, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try it. So I ran and had neighbors, wonderful neighbors, who mobilized around me and and one. And so I started about a year and a half ago, and it's been really good. I think I've been surprised how much I've enjoyed it. I mean, the meetings are very long, and I've had to get used to the pace of government, which is very, very slow. But I think also, like, for an activist person like me, there's a sense of like there's so much in our broader world that feels out of control and a little crazy making. And so it's been really hopeful and grounding for me to be involved in something that feels like it's going the right direction. And so I'm like, you know, if we're incrementally making progress towards, like, having better non motorized transport in our city, like, that's a win. Or if we're slowly working towards this park, you know, a beautiful third space for parents, and one day, I want there to be a coffee house right next to this park, like, that's a win. So I just have to keep those long range goals in mind. And, you know, work the system, which. Is very, very slow, but it just, it's beautiful to be part of a community and making a difference in a way that, especially in this time in history, where there's a lot of things that are fill out of our control, like, it's nice to be like, I'm making a difference in my neighborhood, and I can go to sleep and sleep well, knowing that, what
Tiffany Owens Reed 20:20
was your How would you describe your mindset when you were because you mentioned how you had had these two encounters with the city, serving on the Parks and Rec advisory board and then trying to get this mural funded. Um, I'm just curious. Like, when you, as you were thinking about running for local government, and you kind of seen a little bit of how local government functions, were you like, oh my gosh, no way. And then you kind of found yourself warming up to it. Or, like, how do you see local government in terms of, I feel like sometimes it can be like the bad guy in the story, you know, like, ah, the city, they won't ever do anything, you know. But at strong towns, we always say local government can be the highest form of collaboration. So where are you in that kind of like spectrum? And just what was your thought process as you were thinking about, you know, you have limited time and energy, and then kind of deciding, you know, what, I'm going to invest it in this role, especially as someone with your personality who has that more grassroots, relational, organic kind of approach to community engagement.
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 21:20
Yeah. I mean, I, I think, like, in my 20s, when I was at the nonprofit, I really did see, like the city councils like the enemy, because we were working with, like homeless people and put people in the margins. You know, a lot of there was a little bit of oppositional identity or oppositional thinking at that point. But I think, as especially through the Parks and Rec like that, feels like, like, kind of the gateway, not the gateway drug, but the gateway, like, entrance to city government. Because it's, it's like, you know, you begin to see, oh, okay, you have to do this five years out. Okay, we have to, you know, like, this takes time or incrementally. We have to use, I use. I started, like, understanding the budgets and the realities of of that and so, and then getting to know the personalities on on our council. I mean, yeah, I mean, what I love, and what I was surprised about, because I'm very, very relational, is how much of city work is relational. So, like, one of the first things I was, I, you know, there our city council had been the same for many years, and there was some entrenched conflict, and I knew that going in. And so one of the things I did was just ask every one of the city councilors to sit down and for coffee. And I felt like that was like a gift. I was bringing as, like, my personality, and also as a woman, I was kind of, like, just sat down with everyone and heard a little bit about them on, you know, and even the people that I don't agree with, their approaches I really respect. You know, some of them are, like, small they've been here their whole life, or as I haven't, and they have that perspective, which is really needed. So I think that was, like I was, I've been so surprised how the relational component is really important in local politics. And even on a county level, like we are working together as a county, there's there's an initiative called North Star, which is like working towards ending homelessness and addiction, and it's a lot about relationship building between the different cities and not making sure we're not replicating services, and it's just the slow process of building trust. And so I love that part of it, and that's, that's a strength I bring. And I feel like, you know, I yeah, it's just fun to be able to be like, Oh, this, you know, this is a lot of what this is, is just building trust and building relationship and and finding creative solutions, because we're in a time where there isn't, increasingly, there's not going to be the financial resources that we've had. But what are our creative solutions as we work together?
Tiffany Owens Reed 23:53
Have you ever found yourself wanting to scream at like the pace of things? I feel like that would be my biggest challenge. It
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 24:01
is, it is, it's, I mean, it's like, there's the one park. So I joined in 2020 I joined Parks and Rec in 2020 because a park two blocks away from us. It's called Maven Park, and it's like the crown jewel Park, of like, it has big old growth trees still, still there, and it's lovely. But it has like this, like drab 1980s play set in, like, the bathroom never open. There's like, a port a potty. So you're just like, why? Like, this is so, you know, it like, has had nothing done to it for like, the last 3040, years, and they've had like, version after version after version of proposals, and nothing's ever materialized. So I joined, and I was like, I'm gonna, you know, really want to make this a nature playground, nature scape playground, because we had our favorite one in Portland that we loved. My kids loved going to this West, this playground in Portland, and they would just spend hours with the sand and the water pump. And so I had this vision. And we have tried so many things like we tried going. For an RCO grant, and it was denied. And we tried this, we paid for consultants to do a master thing, and it was like a big flop. And so I'm just like, that project in particular has just irked me. So finally, I was like, let's plan it, and then we can raise funds through the community, you know, like, that's our newest version, but it's been five years of frustration, but one day it will be beautiful. And I really there's like, a little house that's sometimes used for, like, it's mostly empty, but one day, I've envisioned that being a coffee house right there, and so the parents can their toddlers can play, and then the parents can sip coffee, and it's just gonna be amazing. But it
Tiffany Owens Reed 25:37
is two very essential, complimentary activities. But I still want to ask you, like, the middle of all that, if someone's listening to this and they're like, you know, that's exactly why I'm just going to keep doing the grassroots stuff, because government takes forever. Like, how would you respond to that? Like, with all these experiences you've had, if you were to make a case for, like, the value of participating in local government, what would your talking points be, oh, that's a
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 26:02
good question. I mean, I think there's absolutely a great argument for remaining an engaged activist citizen. So like, yes, but also, like being on the inside, you gain credibility, you learn the way the system works, and then you can try to use it for your advantage, like, I've gotten to know the head of departments, like I'm we met some neighbors, and I created a bicycle coalition. And so we've gotten to know, like, the the planners who are doing it. And then I was able to be, like, two weeks ago, I sat in on a public works our old public works director left, and he was, like, a big highways guy who's great in that, but that wasn't his skill set. And so I was able to sit in on the interview for the new public works director, and we hired someone from Fort Collins, which is like the Amsterdam of the United States. And he starts like, and so like, I mean, you know, just I was able to bring that, like, love and advocacy. I just said, what's the non motorized? What's your experience with no non motorized? And so I was able to be and I think the city probably would have chosen that way anyways, but like, like being able to make that big structural change, and he's bringing his expertise and that, I think he's really going to help the city grow in that. And that's a way as a grassroots like we had been doing, like we'd been sitting down with neighbors saying, We want these bike paths. We want this, but we don't have the as a grassroots, you know, Coalition. We have no means to we have no resources to make that happen, but making those structural changes is the best way to make that a reality. Yeah,
Tiffany Owens Reed 27:32
the two definitely go together. I sometimes have this phrase in my head of, like, political infrastructure and how important it is to understand, like, how does change happen in your town? Like, what's the what are the processes? Who are the people you know? What are the constraints? What are the governing paradigms that all goes into this idea of every town having its own political infrastructure. And I think maybe it could be helpful to think about participating in local government more as like, just like a learner, like, I just want to learn the system, and maybe not quite as much as like this is I feel like some people are saying, maybe some people feel like, oh, getting involved in local government means that you think it's the best way to get anything done, and I think it has potential. But I think it can also just be like you're saying, really valuable in terms of just learning, what are the systems and processes and people and relationships and there are, there are certain changes that can only happen if you're able to persuade local government and city departments and city staff and department heads to, like, invest in certain ways and hire in certain ways and plan in certain ways. So I definitely think you need that collaboration between local government and the grassroots. But I know it can also be tricky figuring out exactly what that can look like,
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 28:53
yeah, and who to talk to, and just getting city employees to trust. I mean, they may not like your idea, but if they really feel like you really are for the community. There's, there's credibility in that care.
Tiffany Owens Reed 29:07
Yeah, what would you say is the most interesting thing you've learned so far about how cities function, or maybe how your town functions, anything in particular that was really surprising or just fun to learn?
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 29:21
Yeah? Yeah. I mean, I think just we are really fiscally conservative, which is frustrating at times, but it's been great to see like we've just had a big economic you know, I think this economically, things feel kind of all over the place right now, and all the towns around us are struggling in Burlington is not because of that fiscally conservative, um, kind of character trait and so like, I think that's been something that, again, from my grassroots perspective, that would have been, I might have been, I might have been critical of that in the past, but I'm also seeing now the gift. Of it. And so that's been a surprisingly humble thing. Like, okay, that's, I appreciate this about this town, and we're going to be able to keep all our, hopefully our city departments, and, you know, keep our employees because, because we haven't over extended the budget. And, yeah,
Tiffany Owens Reed 30:19
that's a good that's a good connection to my next question, because fiscal wisdom, I guess, or just caution, is central to sort of the strong towns message. So I'm just curious. Can you tell us how you found out about strong towns? You're currently in the cohort, correct? I am in the cohort. So tell us a little bit about how you found out about strong towns, and how has that shaped how you see your town, both its struggles and its potential, and kind of how you see like your role in all of that?
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 30:51
So I was involved. I went to a parish collective conference in Seattle. They have a big gathering. They used to have a big gathering they called inhabit and so one of the the workshops was led by strong towns, and I didn't really know much about it, but I it was kind of because of my involvement with Parks and Rec. I was like, oh, I should see what it is. And so I went, and I was really impressed that, I think kind of the grassroots nature of like, kind of like, choose something small, see if it works and if it does, do it again, you know, just I mean, that really appealed to like, I want to make a difference, and what's one small thing I could do? Like, that grassroots part of myself really resonated with that. And so that was my first exposure. And then, as I've been thinking about kind of like, what revitalizing our historic downtown could look like. I started like realizing most of the articles that I was reading and my internet searches were from strong towns. And so then I started listening to podcasts from strong towns and so, and then I got to know some folks through so it's just been, you know, I think over probably the last four years, I've been growing and I, you know, I still feel like I there's a lot of the strong towns, you know, kind of values that I'm I'm still growing in. And so the cohorts been really good to try to understand. Like, why is parking, you know, why is that? Like, I don't understand why that's a big deal. But then, after taking the course, I'm like, okay, and financial responsibility, like, or, you know, kind of how the finances and decoding that, like, all of that has been really helpful and very practical, especially where I am right now. So
Tiffany Owens Reed 32:30
how is that shaped? How you see your city like when you're driving around Burlington? Are you like now? Every time you see a parking lot, you're like, Oh no,
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 32:39
yeah. Or just realizing like me,
Tiffany Owens Reed 32:41
and I'm always like, unproductive use of land, and everyone else in the car, like, rolls their eyes. You're like, oh my goodness, make it stop Tiffany.
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 32:49
Well, it makes me understand, like, we have a really big city south of us that's, like, quite sprawling, and they're in financial trouble. And I'm like, oh, that's why Burlington, partly why Burlington is doing so well is because we're so small, like, you know, the idea of infrastructure and having to infrastructure that's built and so, like, it's just, like having a lens to understand. That really helps. Like, when you, you know, open newspapers and you read about other cities, you're like, Oh, I finally have this lens. So it's just, it's, it's been very helpful, because I, you know, I'm a liberal arts person. Had no idea about any of this, and so I just laugh when I'm like, now I'm listening to podcasts about traffic lights and traffic engineering, and I'm like, who am I? What happened to me? So all my English major friends would be like, what is
Tiffany Owens Reed 33:39
there anything in particular that you see in Burlington that you feel like resonates, or that you've learned from strong towns that you feel like really applies to something in your city that you feel like might be a good opportunity to make it even stronger?
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 33:55
Yeah. I mean, I just feel like, the idea of like, human centered spaces and, like, you know, the, and I don't know if it's specific strong towns, I
Tiffany Owens Reed 34:07
think we have, like, safe and productive streets. So that would probably include, yeah,
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 34:10
yeah, that's been really helpful, because I think we have a downtown strip that's, that's, you know, it's like, kind of a traffic through fair and it, it isn't the kind of place where people feel comfortable walking, and it's, it's, it's not doing well economically. So just trying to take those principles and bring that language to the business owners, so that that's something that's like a future project that I want to work on.
Tiffany Owens Reed 34:36
Yeah, why don't we talk about that now? Because I love downtowns and, yeah, you shared a little bit about this in our intro chat. So, yeah, tell us a little bit about your downtown. If you could tell us a story of like, here's what it is, here's why it's struggling, and maybe a little bit about your dream for it. Yeah.
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 34:53
So it's, it's the you know, Burlington basically started. Kind of where it's it's called the hub city because it's where two railroads, the north and south and east west of the Burlington Northern Railroad, converge in Burlington. And so this the historic downtown, is right there, and it was like a central part of the community. But in the the 90s, the community, the the community leaders decided to basically sell agricultural fields. We had a lot of strawberry fields. They sold those and built big box stores. And so we have, like, a Costco, a Fred Meyer, you know, all the big box stores are here. Everybody in the county comes to Burlington to go to those big box stores. And so basically, all the investment went to that part of the city. We have, like, a big strip mall. We have a strode and all those stores are along it. And then the historic downtown basically became neglected, and it's kind of the through fare for a lot of traffic. And so I call it beige Burlington. Like every most of the buildings are beige and tan, and they're just really, like, worn down, and everything looks pretty sad to me. There's a few things. There's a couple of restaurants. There's a gentleman who's bought two restaurants, and they draw a lot. And there's a couple of small businesses that are coming back, but it's really been a lot of its insurance people. And, you know, it's like lots of barbers and churches, which are those are all great businesses, but nothing inspires like people wanting to walk there. Like we live a block from there, we never go there, because there's nothing to walk well,
Tiffany Owens Reed 36:31
especially too. But this sounds like it has high traffic volume too, because of the way the road is designed
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 36:35
exactly, and parallel parking is really dangerous, like we drive a little Prius. And so there's all these big trucks in our agricultural Valley, and like, I am always scared every time I'm backing up that I'm going to get hit by one of those big trucks zoom through. So my, and this is not just my, my, my hope. It's a hope. I've heard in a lot of this community surveys that we've done, it's just people are like, we really want that to be, you know, something that people feel safe and there's something, there's something to go see there. And so we are hoping to start, you know, kind of talking and connecting. They have a chamber, but maybe working with the chamber, connecting with the local businesses, and building a vision, and trying to convince them, first of all, maybe to eliminate the diagonal parking, because we have a lot of like, you know, street parking. There's, we've done studies. The city's done studies on it, but kind of local businesses to buy in, maybe do some strut of storefront repair and just recruit some businesses to come that actually people want to walk to and extend the sidewalks and maybe get paint on the road, you know, I mean, just like, you know, some art to kind of, like, spruce it up. So there's a lot of hope. I think I realized what a big thing it will be. So it's, I haven't actually started putting too much energy towards that, but that is definitely a goal for the next year or two. So
Tiffany Owens Reed 38:01
in addition to creating this vision for your downtown, I know that you're also active and the bike the bike conversation, the bike ability conversation, can you share a little bit about what that looks like in your town and what you're hoping to achieve?
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 38:16
Yes, we through kind of the neighborhood block parties and events. We I connected with two, like, a couple that lives a few blocks away, and they were like, he used to wrench at a bike store. They were like, super into bikes. And so I asked them if they would be willing to work with me on, you know, kind of around the bicycle issue. And they said yes, and he's a graphic designer, and it's the most amazing thing was, like, we started, we started having these meetings where we would look at, like, problem spots and like our suggested north, south, east, west, and we'd invite different neighbors in. And so we were kind of gathering informally. And then last year, he basically said, you know, like, let's, let's create it. Let's create a banner, and we're going to go to a city event, and we'll just, you know, offer, he's a bike mechanic, and he said, you know, we can just offer, you know, folks, we can tune up bikes for free, and we can just let people know that we're here. And so he created this big banner, and we kind of became instantly like a thing, because we had this, like, this visual presence, and we're called the Burlington Bicycle Coalition. And so we set up a tent at thriftopia, which is happening next year. So it was about a year ago, and we we tuned up bikes and raffled up we had free bikes that we raffled off to kids, and just like we're beginning to interface with with the community and the city took note of us, and they started asking us to come to different events. And so we became almost like, instantly, this like recognized group. And so over the last year, we've we've done a survey. We created a survey on Google Forms, just asking about, you know, the the different per. References around parking versus bike lanes. You know what the different priorities were for the community, as far as like, were they more interested in in bike lane infrastructure or off road things, and which, which parts of the county and city did they want to prioritize? And then we we were able to connect with another mom who was doing her own grassroots survey around pump track. And she was asking people whether they wanted, you know, dirt pump track or asphalt pump track, because they were avid mountain bikers. And so then we connected with her, and it started this whole conversation about a pump track for youth. And we just met with this. We just presented to the Parks and Rec board this last week, and we're going for a technical review committee at trc coming up. And so we're kind of on the fast track of that happening potentially as early as this summer. And we found a nonprofit that we can be under its umbrella, and so, and then we were able to, hopefully we have all the survey information we can get to the new public works director. So it's just amazing. Again, we started, like last year, and all of this has taken place. We have about about 100 members, and we have our plan put together for the pump track, and we're just like, waiting for the city to give us permission. So it's been really, really great. And again, we're hoping that the city can take like they will have to do the, you know, they'll do the feasibility study on the traffic and where the bike lane should go. So again, we've just given them that input, but we can be a partner with them as they make those changes.
Tiffany Owens Reed 41:30
That's really exciting. Well, Elizabeth, I'm really glad we were able to bring you on the show and hear your story and this adventure that you're on and participating in the civic life of your community. In closing, I know this is probably a funny question after we we chuckled about your beige downtown, but I know there's got to be a couple places around town that you'd love to take people to or recommend. So this is your chance to brag a little bit. Are there any places in Burlington that you like to tell people to check out if they're coming through to get a slice of local life.
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 42:05
Absolutely, there is a wonderful taco place, taco taco litlan, and it's by our local high school, and it's won awards for its tacos. And that's that's a lot of fun. We have two we have an entrepreneur has converted an old building into a pub, it's called the train wreck, and it's right by the railroad tracks. And then there's railroad pizzas. And so those are really awesome places. There's a great Thai restaurant, supposedly, that the cook used to you cook for the Thai King. And that's kind of by our friends, but one of my favorite places is not to eat, but is our local library. We have such an amazing library. It's just beautiful and light, and it's just like such a hub for our community. So we have that. And then we we have a new all inclusive playground, which is a big hit for the kids. So those are some highlights of Burlington.
Tiffany Owens Reed 43:03
Awesome. You mentioned coffee shops a few times. Do you have a favorite coffee shop in Burlington?
Elizabeth Turman-Bryant 43:08
There is, sadly, there's not, there's there is one that's in the strip malls that I go to, but I would say it's not my favorite. All right, so
Tiffany Owens Reed 43:15
an opportunity to come, yeah, all right. Well, thank you so much again, Elizabeth, and if you're listening to this, thank you for joining us for another conversation. We back soon with another another conversation that I'm really excited about also. In the meantime, if you know someone who you think would make a great fit for this show, that someone you think you should interview, please let us know using the suggested guest form in our show notes. We're back soon. In in the meantime, keep doing what you can to build a strong town.
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Tiffany Owens Reed is the host of The Bottom-Up Revolution podcast. A graduate of The King's College and former journalist, she is a New Yorker at heart, currently living in Texas. In addition to writing for Strong Towns and freelancing as a project manager, she reads, writes, and curates content for Cities Decoded, an educational platform designed to help ordinary people understand cities. Explore free resources here and follow her on Instagram @citiesdecoded.